Go to the original location here.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Can You Trademark Someone's Island Name And Then Shut Them Down?
Sadly, OWK Island will be no more. There has been some sort of Hostile takeover by one of it's officers. OWK is a European Island. A American trademarked the Island Name and told the UK OWK Island owner he had to shut down or she would tell Linden Lab he was using her trademark.
The poor guy took this as a serious threat and announced to his 1780 group members that he was deleting the island tommorow.
He said to us:
"Reason is that a officer of the group registered OWK as a trade mark in USA for herself. And because Lindens Lab respect USA laws, she now want to be owner of OWK in SL group or will do towards me legal actions for infringement of Digital Millenium Copyright Act.
So – I will made her owner of group and tommorow destroy all my buildings on island and return all your objects (if some are here). After this will sold both our islands."
Is her threat real? Can anyone just trademark your SL project name and tell you to close down?
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Empress Of The Universe
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They can tell you, but unless you are actually infringing on their trademark, they probably have no legal grounds to actually carry out the threat.
Cyan Energy Man
DMCA = Digital Millenium Copyright Act, not Trademark act.____________________________________________________________________
I think the worse that can happen is Linden Lab will be forced to take down the aoffending content, and possibly have the island renamed. if you think there is a problem with the island name, contact Linden Lab and have the name changed (I think they charge 100usd)
Issuing a DMCA is a first line of fire, if you comply with it then I belive there is no real legal threat. Unless it was a blantent attempt at infringement.
Peace, and best of luck!
Devil's Bride
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 22
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,710
maybe contact ll and ask them, or have your friend contact a lawyer that deals with this stuff
good luck
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 481
Wow. Could this be a new form of griefing in SL? That is really crappy.
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 48
Wow.... he shouldn't have made her owner of the group or acted so fast without contacting LL first. Unbelievable.
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Assume sarcasm as default
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Here to help
Posts: 1,720
So, a female has taken advantage of weakness and usurped a mere male to take control of a female supremacy environment?____________________________________________________________________
Pep (Unironic)
Dance Addict
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 173
I wouldn't think the trademark process could occur that quickly.
He should stand his ground and call her bluff.
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 481
yeah if it is really important to him, he should consult an attorney. His copyright could supercede it. Reading about trademarks, it sounds like registered trademarks are for businesses. I think SL created content would fall under copyright which also applies to web created content. So yeah, a lawyer is needed.
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Loading....
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweethearts Region
Posts: 338
I searched the Trademark office of USA and came up with this
[b]Word Mark [/b] [b]OWK[/b]
[b]Goods and Services[/b] IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: Managing and operating resort hotels and business conference centers of others. FIRST USE: 20080301. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20080501
[b]Standard Characters Claimed[/b]
[b]Mark Drawing Code[/b] (4)
STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
[b]Serial Number[/b] 77614614
[b]Filing Date[/b] November 14, 2008
[b]Current Filing Basis[/b] 1A
[b]Original Filing Basis[/b] 1A
[b]Owner[/b] (APPLICANT) Name not disclosed due to Sl TOS SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP CALIFORNIA Black Mountain Road San Diego CALIFORNIA
[b]Type of Mark[/b] SERVICE MARK
[b]Register[/b] PRINCIPAL [b]Live/Dead Indicator[/b] LIVE
If it were me i would have just changed the island name to OWK-SL
No one has to close the island Just change the name .
It was recently registered also November 14th
Last edited by Dilbert Dilweg : 12-05-2008 at 10:18 AM.
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 298
The Lindens are easily capable of changing the names of islands.
He could put in a request to have the island name changed due to copyright problems.
Under no circumstances should he actually give the island to the person.
In a dispute between a group and the true land owner of the island, LL ALWAYS sides with the true land owner (the person who bought it from them and who pays them directly the tier) and doesn't even acknowledge the others to have any claim on it
I advise the owner of the island to ban the people trying to steal his land, AR them for harassment and mute them if needed.
Also ban them from the group and send out a group message informing everyone what a bunch of low life criminals they are to try to copyright the name years after its use in an attempt to steal it.
If anyone supports them too much, issue a warning that SL isnt a democracy, and they could also be banned from the island if they continue.
Then contact the office where they have filed the claim for copyright, and inform them that the name is already in use in your country and on the internet and in second life. This should make it very difficult for the claim to be acknowledged by the office especially once they know its an attempt to steal something in SL.
Last edited by Cortex Draper : 12-22-2008 at 01:22 PM.
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 300
| | Quote:
WRONG Copyright and Trademarks are different. For someone to issue a DMCA there has to be a COPYRIGHT infringement. A registered trademark is covered by a different act. Either way, the correct course of action is a rebrand of the island as previously suggested. Last edited by Bee Mizser : 12-05-2008 at 11:38 AM. |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 155
____________________________________________________________________Quote:
...
If it were me i would have just changed the island name to OWK-SL
No one has to close the island Just change the name .
It was recently registered also November 14th
I think this would only make it worse - it implies you know there is a real world OWK and you are using it in SL. Just change it to something else entirely.
Lady of the House
In a word, maybe - but based on what we've read here, unlikely. The island owner should consult an attorney, and also challenge the supposed trademark.
Trademarks are based on usage in commerce, not first to file. If the owner of the island is the first to use the brand in commerce, and can prove it, they should have the right to use it and this case is bogus. Unless there are more facts (and there usually are), the owner should not be cowed by this and should consult an attorney.
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Registered User
Posts: 757
____________________________________________________________________Quote:
Is the person trademarking OWK anything to do with the RL OWK?
Matthew
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 155
Quote:
Trademarks are based on usage in commerce, not first to file. If the owner of the island is the first to use the brand in commerce, and can prove it, they should have the right to use it and this case is bogus. Unless there are more facts (and there usually are), the owner should not be cowed by this and should consult an attorney.
Well, after they decide whether it is worth it. Around here (Baltimore, MD - Washington, DC), a skilled patent attorney is not cheap. No doubt they can inform you of the situation in 5 minutes, bill you for 15 plus 5 minutes for the one minute the staff took to answer your initial call, so it would only cost you a bit over $ 100. To actually do anything would run the cost of an island in a lot of cases. Is it worth that? Just wondering...
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Registered User
Posts: 155
____________________________________________________________________Quote:
Matthew
Don't know - just suggesting that getting away from it altogether would be the easiest way to get out of the combat arena. OWK-SL IMO suggests knowledge of a RL OWK. In this case, of course, they DO have knowledge.
Again, just IMO, but it would appear that simply moving to a new moniker altogether in SL is simpler, easier and much cheaper than any form of challenge. My first (and unsubstantiated) reaction was that the person was looking for a reason to let go and got it from this trademark notice. There were too many easy, less drastic available alternatives to the notice as I read it in the OP. Only details I know are what I read here, though.
Mostly Harmless
A simple reciept from the Island's purchase is enough to show prior useage. File a ticket with LL, be sure to include any and all relavent conversations and notecards and tell the usurper to go ---- well, you get the idea.
The actions taken by the owner were probably the worst things they could have done.
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VooDoo Vogue Top Model
Posts: 3,020
Yep, agree with Yosef.____________________________________________________________________
Adding her as an owner to the group was a huge mistake. No way should she be added to the any land controls, which would compound the problem.
Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
Well I believe the owner of OWK became aware of his rights (perhaps after reading here). He posted the following:____________________________________________________________________It seems as if the real OWK in Europe is backing him up.Quote:
Greetings, i have read some rumours about rl OWK
yesterday in group chat.
So, its not true that OWK end.
RL OWK only offer Areal for sale. If its will be sold,
we will open new destination.
If not, we open another season and
continue.
More info on [url]www.owk.cz[/url] soon.
New OWKtm sim prepared by some ladies
has not any support by The Other World Kingdom authorities,
its private action by person that use OWK mark now.
We will advice it on our web sites too, to avoid any misunderstanding.
Nice day.
Apocalips = low prims
Posts: 448
i hope the land doesnt belong to the group that he made the person owner of.. or i hope that he is estate owner..____________________________________________________________________
Posting on Borrowed Time
Posts: 5,323
1. Boot her as an owner and a group member.____________________________________________________________________
2. Tell her to file and be damned.
From what you've described, she has no grounds. As others have said, you can easily prove first use. Simply filing for a trademark does not let her trump that. Also, as others have said, DMCA does not apply to trademarks anyway.
She can *FILE* a DMCA takedown notice, and your content may be removed by LL. In this case, you must file an objection. See the procedure for that. Although it's a huge pain, I'm pretty sure that it would be resolved in your favor, for the two reasons stated above.
Now, there appears to be a RL "OWK". This may be another matter entirely. Do you mimic their operation or service in SL? If so, you might be liable to a trademark infringement claim from THEM. If your name is simply a coincidence (for example, they make, say, potato chips and you sell poseballs), I would not worry about it.
Lady of the House
Quote:
Sadly, this is always the choice.Quote:
Around here (Baltimore, MD - Washington, DC), a skilled patent attorney is not cheap. No doubt they can inform you of the situation in 5 minutes, bill you for 15 plus 5 minutes for the one minute the staff took to answer your initial call, so it would only cost you a bit over $ 100. To actually do anything would run the cost of an island in a lot of cases. Is it worth that? Just wondering...
Not to nitpick, but a Patent attorney is not the same. Patents are distinct from trademarks, and both are distinct from copyright. They are not the same thing, and while they are often related in the realm of intellectual property, it is not the same.
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n&b exports: furniturefoo
this is sl, they wouldnt even need a trademark/copyright/etc. they could just file frivolous dmca claims and run you out of business.
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Disrupted Technologist
Posts: 2,747
____________________________________________________________________Quote:
The poor guy took this as a serious threat and announced to his 1780 group members that he was deleting the island tommorow.
He said to us:
"Reason is that a officer of the group registered OWK as a trade mark in USA for herself. And because Lindens Lab respect USA laws, she now want to be owner of OWK in SL group or will do towards me legal actions for infringement of Digital Millenium Copyright Act.
So – I will made her owner of group and tommorow destroy all my buildings on island and return all your objects (if some are here). After this will sold both our islands."
Is her threat real? Can anyone just trademark your SL project name and tell you to close down?
Don't do any of that.
Don't even think about it.
Do not ever act on the basis of cartoony lawyer threats from anyone.
Cartoony lawyer = someone making lawyer-type noises.
The OWK name was in use by you before she registered it.
She could try to claim that you are abusing her trademark and passing yourself off as her. Your use of the OWK before she registered it (IF she registered it) weakens her case,
She is in no way entitled to the possession of anything anywhere (never mind in SL) that has "OWK" written on it. That would be ridiculous.
Check if "China" is a registered trademark. If not, register it and tell the Chinese government that you are taking over.
Changing the name from OWK would remove any cause for action.
Then of course she could register that name. Repeat and rinse.
If fact.... why not find a nice sim in SL, register its name as your trademanrk and then tell the owners to give it to you.
Good luck with that one.
Warning:
I am not a lawyer qualified in the field of international trademarks.
DO not listen to me.
I am a cartoony lawyer.
Registered User
Posts: 604
I'm sorry but OWK just don't sound like a name fighting over.____________________________________________________________________
When I google it I get a BSDM site in the Czech.
I wonder how they fell about an american trying to steal their glory.
They problem will show up at his/her door steps and give them some RL BSDM for free.
Registered User
Posts: 832
____________________________________________________________________Quote:
The poor guy took this as a serious threat and announced to his 1780 group members that he was deleting the island tommorow.
He has been scammed.Quote:
No--all the person has done is APPLY for a registered trademark. That is not the same thing as getting a trademark registered. It takes at least a year normally for a trademark to go from application to registration.Quote:
Goods and Services IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: Managing and operating resort hotels and business conference centers of others. FIRST USE: 20080301. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20080501
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 77614614
Filing Date November 14, 2008
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Owner (APPLICANT) Shayna Theti Sheri SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP CALIFORNIA 223 13223-1 Black Mountain Road San Diego CALIFORNIA 92129
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Note that by the "Owner" entry there is the word "(APPLICANT)" and that the mark lacks a Registration number.
It gets worse. She applied for a mark in International Class 035 for the Goods & Services of "Managing and operating resort hotels and business conference centers of others". Even if she were granted the mark, it would not restrict the original owners ability to operate an island in SL under that name. She's applied for trademark protection on something he is not doing! Second Life is not Real Life. She should have applied for a trademark in a International Class approriate for offering entertainment or computer services (such as IC041 or IC042) with a correct description of Goods & Services.Quote:
Ignoring the facts that she has an application, not a trademark, and that her application is for the wrong IC and goods and services, the DMCA has nothing to do with trademarks.Quote:
He folded extremely fast. But he might try a call to concierge and explained how he was scammed. They might be able to reverse the action of making her an owner.Quote:
NoQuote:
Possibly, but not like this, and they would have a fight on their hands.
Heartbreaking
Posts: 2,034
Wow this person sure has some e-balls to trademark the name of a real-world place that already has an SL manifestation and community. I'm sure her actions will really endear her to the D/s community. *rolls eyes*____________________________________________________________________
Alpha Channel Slave
Posts: 6,129
As others have stated, the trademark applicant really has no case, and the island owner should be ashamed of his/herself for cowering to this bogus threat so easily. There are two simple remedies for this situation:____________________________________________________________________
1. Rename the island, and call it a day. This would be the easiest way out, although arguably not the best thing to do.
-OR-
2. Challenge the validity of the trademark application. Trademark law is more about protecting the public than protecting the trademark holders/applicants. Just because one applies for a trademark doesn't mean it will be granted. Anyone can apply for anything; it doesn't mean squat in and of itself. The whole point behind trademark is so that the public can be reasonably certain they know who they're dealing with when they see a brand name or symbol. In this case, the brand in question is already well established. For someone to come along and say "I just filed for trademark today, so you have to abandon the brand," is not something that would hold up under challenge. If it were me, I'd have my lawyer get medieval this moron.
Either way, the person should obviously be kicked out of the group, and banned from the island. Also, Linden Lab should be informed of the situation (in writing) immediately, so that nobody over there jumps the gun and deletes any branded content.
But whatever happens, tell your friend not to delete the island. There's nothing to be gained by doing that.
Registered User
Posts: 155
____________________________________________________________________Quote:
Not to nitpick, but a Patent attorney is not the same. Patents are distinct from trademarks, and both are distinct from copyright. They are not the same thing, and while they are often related in the realm of intellectual property, it is not the same.
Uh, I am on speaking terms with a well-known patent attorney (DC attorney that seems to pick several awards every year - I couldn't afford him) from a board we're both on. He also does trademarks. I haven't met a trademark attorney and until I do, if I have a problem with a trademark, my first stop would be him.
If I could afford him.
Registered User
Posts: 757
____________________________________________________________________Quote:
When I google it I get a BSDM site in the Czech.
I wonder how they fell about an american trying to steal their glory.
They could probably file a DCMA complaint to stop her using "her" trademark!
Matthew
Registered User
Posts: 15
If you want the true full story it is here: http://squadvillage.blogspot.com____________________________________________________________________
The OWK in SL now owned by OWK™ owners.
A well known and liked by many BDSM HotSpot in Second Life has Officially been taken over by new Owners, Real FemDom.
What really happened. In the beginning the owner of OWK offered OWK and OWK Village for sale to Shayna Paine and a group of unknown women who called themselves the Secret Sister Society.
Michaal Ultsch the owner of the 2 sims in SL offered to sell this to the group for about 4300.00 and agreed to take 13 months of $350.00 payments. The contract they signed stated that he would turn everything that has to do with OWK over to them including his account.
Which is against TOS. Also, the contract stated that upon first payment and thereafter each month he would reveal to the Secret Sister Society all income and expenses. When Shayna
Theti-Sheri aka Shayna Paine in Second Life, went to give Michaal $350.00 for the first payment he refused to hand over the finanicals for that month.
The payment didn't go through. This didn't happen. Michaal then told Shayna that he didn't want to do it that way that OWK and OWK Village were not making any money and he was going to sell her the Rights to use the trademark OWK in Second Life for 3500.00 USD.
Being a business woman, Shayna then went and did research on the name and found out that Michaal Ultsch did not own any trademark on OWK for her to use, therefore he was trying to sell her air.
The whole time that the people at OWK were running OWK Michaal Ultsch was not there.. He was rarely on he stayed away. He didn't do things they needed to do that would help them function.
So the group of Ladies of Secret Sister Society and the staff of OWK were left to run things on their own with out the Owner. And he kept promising that he would sell the sim to them.
When Shayna realized she was being sold air. She met with the others and they decided to move on. So she collected funds from the group and they Trademarked the name they had been working under for almost a year in Second Life.
As far as Shayna ThetiSheri is concerned they did this as a group. She acted as their representative and is taking the full brunt of this because chaos and drama ensued.
This effectively made it look like a hostile takeover. Branding in Second Life have rules and owning a Trademark has guidelines. By law the trademark has to be protected. So the only course right now is to file a DMCA and get back what the women worked for. So Currently, Shayna ThetiSheri has branded OWKtm in Second Life.
You may be asking why this happened Well the public of Second Life often questioned the fact that a real life slave from OWK owned OWK in Second Life and not a Mistress from OWK How could a slave run be successful at a FemDom sim Is the person behind the avatar really a slave This assumption stifled OWK in Second Life and caused it problems.
So many ask why is a slave running OWK in Second Life The women their after a while felt like he was pimping them and it got pretty degrading because he would come on for 2 minutes at a time and tell them they needed to make him more money. This got a little old.
Michaal Ultsch left for a short unpleasant vacation unable to get online for 10 days when this was all about to happen. So no one got to talk to him till he came back.
The Ladies of OWK sick and tired of waiting on him. Went forward and started to work on a new OWKtm with Shayna ThetiSheri and several other people in Second Life. Michaal Ulstch showed back up in Second Life finally and was told he needed to meet with the Ladies.
Shine Rolls and Loes Shi attended this meeting along with Shayna ThetiSheri. Shayna did all the talking for the three in chat. While he Im'd with others in the background. Here is a recollection of what unfolded. First Shayna asked Michaal in front of them. Did you want to sell me OWK trademark for 3500 USD His reply was Yes.
She asked him this to clarify. Because, to this day Shayna still cannot believe that this slave was trying to scam her out of money for things he didn't own. They had offered him payments. She even offered him 2000 USD for the sims but yet nothing had changed hands. Was he playing them So she then continued the conversation and told him that she was sorry that business is business and because he was trying to sell her Air that she had bought the Trademark herself since he didn't own it for 325.00 from USA.
Upon seeing that the trademark was established in the US, Michaal immediately got angry with the Ladies and left. Instead of being rational decided to announce that Shayna Paine took over OWK in SL and that he was ending it. Shayna Paine aka Shayna ThetiSheri. This alarmed the group of course and caused a lot of controversy.
So alot of information was misinformed in rumors and such throughout the day. Shayna ThetiSheri of course knew that this was going to happen. So she made sure she covered herself ahead of time by trademarking several names to stop this from happening in Second Life. Dominant Females do not take lightly to being scammed on, threatened or harassed by a slave.
Especially, in the FemDom Community. Shayna ThetiSheri stood up for Her rights and did this to protect herself and her friends with these things happening in the future.
Please refer to:
[url]http://www.otherworldkingdom.org[/url] for information on what is trademarked by Her.
Group members were divided when the news was broadcasted by Michaal that he was closing down OWK in SL. Then later on he decided to open a new group called Other World Kingdom. Still this slave tries to take control of the business that is ran by Women.
The group was divided because they had no background information about what happened and it just looked like Shayna stepped in and took over. So without knowing the story these people were in the dark and thats when people make assumptions and spread rumors.
Hopefully this article will give them in insight on what happened to the Women who actually ran OWK in SL.
Michaal announced that he would be giving the OWK in SL group to Shayna Paine because she now owns the US Tradmark of OWKtm. He feels that this was unfair to him. But its ok to sell someone Air for 3500.00 USD in Second Life and get away with it. Not only that he led these women on for over 6 months believing they were going to own it. The group broke out into a discussion and several of the ladies involved in OWK and that are moving to the new OWKtm reassured people that they would not have to pay a new fee.
The only thing that will happen is that everything will be moved to a new location and made into a real replica of OWK. The future of OWKtm awaits because though Shayna ThetiSheri wont give out too much information at the moment. This whole project has to do with something unfolding in the BDSM Community in the future in the United States. And has been a project/dream of hers for most of her life.
She's been working toward this dream online and getting people and resources together to make it happen.
The Sim has been reported to be under construction and awaiting completion, However the new build will be something like a replication of the Real Life version for those who cannot visit or will never get the opportunity to visit the real world "Other World Kingdom" when it is sold. Not all aspects of the land will be the same but for the most part the feel and look will be captured on the second Life grid.
All Staff, members and slaves, including Michaal Ultsch are welcome to be involved in the new OWKtm, free of charge. The vendors are even free. Since this venture has to do with a Real Life venture in the United States and will be funded through donations and some key investors. The Investors are hard working a way so that the virtual world can be more enjoyment to the participants without the burden of needing to pay extra for things.
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Posts: 2,750
Without knowing the details, there's an awful lot of options that could be taken, but I will assume for the purposes of this post that what has been described is the complete truth of the situation. I am not a lawyer, so take this for what it is worth in terms of advice: next to nothing.____________________________________________________________________
If someone came to me and asked me to stop misusing their trademark on something *I* created before their trademark ever existed (and, in fact, happened to be someone that worked with me on the project so named), I would first ask for proof that it was trademarked. Receiving that, I would then have to make a decision.
First, you CAN fight it. If you create something that has had a name for a significant amount of time, and has become more or less well-known as being yours, someone else can't trademark your usage, because it constitutes significant pre-existing usage, which is supposed to be revealed in the investigation phase of a trademark application. IE, you have to show you made due diligence to determine that the name being requested for trademark protection is yours and is unique, within the industry sector you are registering it within. Since the person who trademarked it knew it was not hers, and is not unique, she committed perjury, more or less, and if it went to court, it would most likely get voided immediately, once that evidence came to light.
Second, you can opt to deflect it. Change the name of the island and group to something else. Names are a dime a dozen. Now, she has spent all that money to get a trademark for nothing. If she does it again, then it is time to go the first route and fight it; she'll be looking at some hefty fines.
404 - User not found
Posts: 869
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http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6148/popcorn4jj.gif Ok, who smuggled in bottles of soda?
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Registered User
Posts: 15
It is a common theme in most forums to discredit new posters, which is fine.____________________________________________________________________
Just covering bases so people aren't misinformed on this situation.
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Posts: 2,750
I posted that at the same time Roxie posted Shayna's side of the story._____________________________________________________________________
It sounds to me like it's being resolved in RL terms, and that posting this here was more to incite drama than to ask a legitimate legal question.
Thus, to answer the original question, outside the context of the actual situation, it depends, but in general, if it isn't yours, then you can't trademark it. If you do actually manage to trademark something that isn't yours, then it can get very expensive for you, if the original owner has enough cause to fight you for it.
Anyway, since the actual situation is being sorted out in RL now, any further points on the topic are moot (well, except to feed us forum trolls with more popcorn).
Multiple Body Disorder
Posts: 8,697
____________________________________________________________________Quote:
Not only that, but Trademarks are not automatically conflicting. They only conflict if they are in active use in the same region, *and* there is a likelihood of confusion. Of someone's making "OWK brand chairs" and someone else has an "OWK" that's not part of the furniture business, there is no conflict.
Registered User
Posts: 15
hehe trolling with popcorn is one of my favourite past times thus this being a forum I am not a regular at I would not grace this place with anything that was for paradi purposes or drama sturing.____________________________________________________________________
Don't shoot the messenger lol
Might have to get more involved here some day.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well back on topic:
No the OWK isn't shutting down, just changing hands.
Someone will always find a problem with something they dislike or dissagree with, it's the way of business really, businesses, change, grow, change ownership etc.
Just another location in SL that is growing and changing.
Hopefully for the good.
Might aswell be adult about it.
Disrupted Technologist
Posts: 2,747
I love SLQuote:
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Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
____________________________________________________________________Not looking for forum drama. Just wanted michaal (who has been here a long time but never posted here for anything) to see that many people do not think this is legal or fair. Happily he saw this thread and decided to move forward. Thank you all for the information.Quote:
It sounds to me like it's being resolved in RL terms, and that posting this here was more to incite drama than to ask a legitimate legal question.
Registered User
Posts: 832
____________________________________________________________________Quote:
Not exactly true. An account can be transfered with the approval of Linden Lab.Quote:
Quote:
Shayna needs to consult an trademark attorney.
1) She has not trademarked it. She has applied for a registered trademark and begun to use "AWK" as a common law mark. However, if someone else is using "AWK" in trade, any rights to that mark from slapping the "TM" after it are probably tenuous.
2) The international class she applied for registration under is almost certainly incorrect for her usage of the mark.
3) I am pretty sure that DMCA takedowns are only for copyright violations. A different procedure is likely needed for trademark infringement.Quote:
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Until you all can separate your role-playing from your business, you will continue to have problems. There are clearly two sides to this story. You need to be able to face each other over a virtual table and talk this out as business people; not domme and sub.
Registered User
Posts: 832
____________________________________________________________________Quote:
What he did may not have been legal or fair, but I believe that the statements made by the person alleging that they "own" the "AWK" are based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of trademark law.
Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
____________________________________________________________________Wow. A big long explanation to say 'I got together with a select few people to steal what he would not sell to me'. They had no problem joining knowing he was a slave. They used that to stage this nonsese takeover.Quote:
Shayna collected funds from the group and they Trademarked the name they had been working under for almost a year in Second Life.
As far as Shayna is concerned they did this as a group.
So the only course right now is to file a DMCA and get back what the women worked for. So Currently, Shayna ThetiSheri has branded OWKtm in Second Life.
I feel they should open their own FemDom Community (oh, wait - most of them have their own islands with FemDom commmunities on them - but none with groups as large as michaal's) And leave michaal to continue - with his SL project.
Registered User
Posts: 757
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1) She has not trademarked it. She has applied for a registered trademark and begun to use "AWK" as a common law mark. However, if someone else is using "AWK" in trade, any rights to that mark from slapping the "TM" after it are probably tenuous.
And the people who (according to whois) registered owk.cz back in 1997 might have something to say about her trademark claim and use of "AWK" too!
Matthew
Assume sarcasm as default
Posts: 1,720
"AWK" has prior use by chickens since 1066____________________________________________________________________
Pep (Loose vowels?)
Multiple Body Disorder
Posts: 8,697
Don't forget Methodia Rascal and the Battle of Koom Valley.____________________________________________________________________
Registered User
Posts: 481
If it is not a business, I would guess ( i'm not a lawyer) it could fall under copyright and intellectual property rights as applied to its use in SL. I do hope he contacts an attorney to find out what his options are.____________________________________________________________________
Registered User
Posts: 1,155
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....
This is so poorly written for what it's trying to say that it doesn't help much. It identifies some of the people and history, but for figuring out who's right or wrong, or what the legal situation is, it's much too jumbled.
Registered User
Posts: 24
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Totally unrelated, but a similar story on copyright/trademark misuse...
[url]http://jmri.sourceforge.net/k/index.html[/url]
Registered User
Posts: 757
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Well, it looks like someone in the US is trying to trademark (in the US) a name which is legally registered as a trading name for a business in Czech ([url]http://dw.czso.cz/rswj/detail_en.jsp?prajed_id=2141653[/url]) in order to obtain an island in SL being run by a representative of that company after that representative offered then withdrew to license them the use of the company name within SL.
Matthew
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Posts: 1,865
if i wanted to keep the name just have periods added between the first 3 letters.____________________________________________________________________
Registered User
Posts: 419
AFAIK, "domme" and "sub" aren't recognized classes under U.S. law, so good luck using any of that as justification in legal filings for who should own the sim.____________________________________________________________________
Registered User
Posts: 896
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Pep (Unironic)
well men make it so damned easy :P
I have nothing of value to add to this thread.
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Registered User
Posts: 173
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I checked this scenario for one of my products -- someone decided to trademark the name after I started using it.
A trademark CANNOT stop you from using a name already in use.
Likely, also, such a contest would require the person owning the trademark to press their case in court, which would be costly -- it is highly unlikely given what you describe to occur.
Put the offending parties on ignore. Offer no information to them (i.e., RL contact information). And, hard as it may seem, don't worry about them. If they DMCA LL (unlikely), just respond -- and BTW if they do you now have a reason to sue for damages.
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404 - User not found
Posts: 869
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The only battle where both sides were able to ambush each other.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,155
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Really? I bet I could make a gazillion dollars by writing H.a.r.r.y P.o.t.t.e.r and the Amateur Lawyers.
Amateur lawyer quiz of the day:
1. Who owns the copyright on my first paragraph above?
2. Could "H.a.r.r.y P.o.t.t.e.r and the Amateur Lawyers" be used as a book title without getting permission from J.K. Rowling and related parties?
3. Could it be used in the content of a book without getting such permissions?
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Registered User
Posts: 1,155
Quote:
A trademark CANNOT stop you from using a name already in use.
That reminds me of the Nissan v. Nissan case. See [url]http://www.internetlibrary.com/cases/lib_case454.cfm[/url] for a good summary of the appeals court decisions. Then read the summary by one of the parties at [url]http://www.digest.com/Big_Story.php[/url], particularly the item at the very bottom.
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Nomad Extraordinaire!
Posts: 561
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Which would make a great name for a band....
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Registered User
Posts: 2
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The OWK in SL now owned by OWK™ owners.
A well known and liked by many BDSM HotSpot in Second Life has Officially been taken over by new Owners, Real FemDom.
What really happened. In the beginning the owner of OWK offered OWK and OWK Village for sale to Shayna Paine and a group of unknown women who called themselves the Secret Sister Society.
Michaal Ultsch the owner of the 2 sims in SL offered to sell this to the group for about 4300.00 and agreed to take 13 months of $350.00 payments. The contract they signed stated that he would turn everything that has to do with OWK over to them including his account.
Which is against TOS. Also, the contract stated that upon first payment and thereafter each month he would reveal to the Secret Sister Society all income and expenses. When Shayna
Theti-Sheri aka Shayna Paine in Second Life, went to give Michaal $350.00 for the first payment he refused to hand over the finanicals for that month.
The payment didn't go through. This didn't happen. Michaal then told Shayna that he didn't want to do it that way that OWK and OWK Village were not making any money and he was going to sell her the Rights to use the trademark OWK in Second Life for 3500.00 USD.
Being a business woman, Shayna then went and did research on the name and found out that Michaal Ultsch did not own any trademark on OWK for her to use, therefore he was trying to sell her air.
The whole time that the people at OWK were running OWK Michaal Ultsch was not there.. He was rarely on he stayed away. He didn't do things they needed to do that would help them function.
So the group of Ladies of Secret Sister Society and the staff of OWK were left to run things on their own with out the Owner. And he kept promising that he would sell the sim to them.
When Shayna realized she was being sold air. She met with the others and they decided to move on. So she collected funds from the group and they Trademarked the name they had been working under for almost a year in Second Life.
As far as Shayna ThetiSheri is concerned they did this as a group. She acted as their representative and is taking the full brunt of this because chaos and drama ensued.
This effectively made it look like a hostile takeover. Branding in Second Life have rules and owning a Trademark has guidelines. By law the trademark has to be protected. So the only course right now is to file a DMCA and get back what the women worked for. So Currently, Shayna ThetiSheri has branded OWKtm in Second Life.
You may be asking why this happened Well the public of Second Life often questioned the fact that a real life slave from OWK owned OWK in Second Life and not a Mistress from OWK How could a slave run be successful at a FemDom sim Is the person behind the avatar really a slave This assumption stifled OWK in Second Life and caused it problems.
So many ask why is a slave running OWK in Second Life The women their after a while felt like he was pimping them and it got pretty degrading because he would come on for 2 minutes at a time and tell them they needed to make him more money. This got a little old.
Michaal Ultsch left for a short unpleasant vacation unable to get online for 10 days when this was all about to happen. So no one got to talk to him till he came back.
The Ladies of OWK sick and tired of waiting on him. Went forward and started to work on a new OWKtm with Shayna ThetiSheri and several other people in Second Life. Michaal Ulstch showed back up in Second Life finally and was told he needed to meet with the Ladies.
Shine Rolls and Loes Shi attended this meeting along with Shayna ThetiSheri. Shayna did all the talking for the three in chat. While he Im'd with others in the background. Here is a recollection of what unfolded. First Shayna asked Michaal in front of them. Did you want to sell me OWK trademark for 3500 USD His reply was Yes.
She asked him this to clarify. Because, to this day Shayna still cannot believe that this slave was trying to scam her out of money for things he didn't own. They had offered him payments. She even offered him 2000 USD for the sims but yet nothing had changed hands. Was he playing them So she then continued the conversation and told him that she was sorry that business is business and because he was trying to sell her Air that she had bought the Trademark herself since he didn't own it for 325.00 from USA.
Upon seeing that the trademark was established in the US, Michaal immediately got angry with the Ladies and left. Instead of being rational decided to announce that Shayna Paine took over OWK in SL and that he was ending it. Shayna Paine aka Shayna ThetiSheri. This alarmed the group of course and caused a lot of controversy.
So alot of information was misinformed in rumors and such throughout the day. Shayna ThetiSheri of course knew that this was going to happen. So she made sure she covered herself ahead of time by trademarking several names to stop this from happening in Second Life. Dominant Females do not take lightly to being scammed on, threatened or harassed by a slave.
Especially, in the FemDom Community. Shayna ThetiSheri stood up for Her rights and did this to protect herself and her friends with these things happening in the future.
Please refer to:
[url]http://www.otherworldkingdom.org[/url] for information on what is trademarked by Her.
Group members were divided when the news was broadcasted by Michaal that he was closing down OWK in SL. Then later on he decided to open a new group called Other World Kingdom. Still this slave tries to take control of the business that is ran by Women.
The group was divided because they had no background information about what happened and it just looked like Shayna stepped in and took over. So without knowing the story these people were in the dark and thats when people make assumptions and spread rumors.
Hopefully this article will give them in insight on what happened to the Women who actually ran OWK in SL.
Michaal announced that he would be giving the OWK in SL group to Shayna Paine because she now owns the US Tradmark of OWKtm. He feels that this was unfair to him. But its ok to sell someone Air for 3500.00 USD in Second Life and get away with it. Not only that he led these women on for over 6 months believing they were going to own it. The group broke out into a discussion and several of the ladies involved in OWK and that are moving to the new OWKtm reassured people that they would not have to pay a new fee.
The only thing that will happen is that everything will be moved to a new location and made into a real replica of OWK. The future of OWKtm awaits because though Shayna ThetiSheri wont give out too much information at the moment. This whole project has to do with something unfolding in the BDSM Community in the future in the United States. And has been a project/dream of hers for most of her life.
She's been working toward this dream online and getting people and resources together to make it happen.
The Sim has been reported to be under construction and awaiting completion, However the new build will be something like a replication of the Real Life version for those who cannot visit or will never get the opportunity to visit the real world "Other World Kingdom" when it is sold. Not all aspects of the land will be the same but for the most part the feel and look will be captured on the second Life grid.
All Staff, members and slaves, including Michaal Ultsch are welcome to be involved in the new OWKtm, free of charge. The vendors are even free. Since this venture has to do with a Real Life venture in the United States and will be funded through donations and some key investors. The Investors are hard working a way so that the virtual world can be more enjoyment to the participants without the burden of needing to pay extra for things.
to add from Roxie post, people should know that OWK was dying from its ashes, michaal was not online much anymore, not blaming anyone but it was dead and it needed a renew. michaal felt it, that s why he tried to give it up. so either he wants 300 or 3000 or 30 000 he was about to sell it, not to keep it going. even the staff he had was leaving because of the internal issues.
so , either you sell it and dont care of what OWK will become, or you get a staff who try to make it be alive again. Shayna is a lifestyler, and wants to keep it alive. michaal had offers, and was and i think still is welcome to join in. if thats just whining because he doesnt get the 4000 usd he wanted, too bad, business is not all, its also about to keep a land active and people enjoying it there.
its too easy to flame and blame, for some femdom sim (not all but we knows the one at least ), that was the opportunity to send owk to its grave, and attract people to them...
at least OWK will reborn and for those who enjoyed it, they are welcome to come join in. others blaming , good travel to you in sl
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Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
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For those that are morally bankrupt: Just because you want someone's project does not mean you try to trademark it in another country and attempt to take it.
It will be a sad day in Second Life when content creators that invested their talent, energgy and money to create a community of 1,800 residents can be taken over by an illegal trademark.
michaal never completed the sale to this person and no money changed hands. Therefore she had no claim to the OWK server. The real life owner of OWK in the Czech Republic did not grant her a license to use the facility name in Second Life (which michaal was granted - since he is the real life secretary at the OWK in Czech Republic). A few unscrupulous women in the group got together and decided to take what was not theirs by bullying the creator.
So now they can ride on the coattails of michaal's successful project and convince themselves they were owed this from him. Whatever blows your skirt 'ladies'.
michaal developed a wonderful project and had the misfortune of trusting the wrong people to help lead his community. I hope to see more work from him in Second Life.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,375
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First registration of a trademark is not the only consideration as to who legally owns a trademark, or whether infringement exists.
However, the first to register a trademark has the legal presumption of ownership, and it takes a court's ruling on solid evidence to overcome that presumption. And I mean a lot of meticulous, verifiable, credible evidence.
From the standpoint of Linden Lab's legal liability, the safe move is respect the registration until a Court rules otherwise. They will not expose themself to liability if they respect the registration.
As everyone has already commented, legal action is expensive. If you're not making a lot of money from the trademark you think you own, it's not worth the fight.
The lesson is that if you have something you think will be of value to you as a trademark, it is far cheaper for you to register it, rather than fight a subsquent registrant to keep it.
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Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
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But since michaal had purchased two islands from LL a year ago and had them named OWK at that time and was using the OWK texture to represent these islands in SL - these women will not get far in trademarking it in November of 2008 and insisting LL enforce thier trademark. If that were the case there would be a whole lot of project poaching going on in SL.
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Registered User
Posts: 2
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i dont understand your business in that matter. you must be the kind of people who wants to have the last word according to your posts.
michaal wanted to sell, there was some offer, he was even invited to the new project even as invited if he had no time to keep it on , as he s selling. owk is run by Ladies , not men, even in rl, what do you think ? you pay a sim and have all rights ? dont forget that there are teams , a staff working on it. and when you see the staff go, you can tell something went wrong.
how do you think Norsim and other high traffic sims are popular and working ? ( beside bots in sims)
good luck in your future flaming post, you like it or not , that s the way it is. i would suggest the 2 concerned persons to talk together, without bullshits in their ears. its a 2 personns affair, not yours
good day to you
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Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
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owk is run by Ladies , not men, even in rl, what do you think ? you pay a sim and have all rights ? Yes, when he pays $600 USD a month and pays $2,400 USD to create the islands he has all rights. That is the way it is.
None of you had a problem with paying him to join his group. He never hid the fact he was a man. Your just using this as an excuse to take what was not yours.
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dont forget that there are teams , a staff working on it. and when you see the staff go, you can tell something went wrong. Yes, something was wrong
the women in charge were attempting to take the OWK from the founder and created a unpleasant atmosphere for the workers - to create a situation that would force michaal to sell. Staff leaving does nto reflect badly on michaal. It reflects badly on the women he allowed to make up the senate that was suppose to run the community. These same women that insisted michaal give them his project.
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good luck in your future flaming post, you like it or not , that s the way it is. i would suggest the 2 concerned persons to talk together, without bullshits in their ears. its a 2 persons affair, not yours
This thread was quiet until you decided to start cheerleading the OWKtm lady. Again, this is not between two people. There were 1,800 members effected. Most were not informed at all - even Mistress' were not asked what their opinion was. And we all know why.
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Incomplete Asshole LC
Posts: 1,479
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"Your honor, the plaintiff has no standing, as he is a slave by virtue of his gender."
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Registered User
Posts: 419
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Another intriguing look at what happens when business mixes with an attempt at self-government in SL. I can't quite decide if this falls under "hostile takeover" or "political coup." Obviously LL will only recognize the person who paid for the island as the owner, as we've seen too often what happens when a "partnership" buys an island and the individual who placed the actual order has a falling out with the other parties.
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Prim Savers = low prims
Posts: 5,025
Quote:
The OWK in SL now owned by OWK™ owners.
A well known and liked by many BDSM HotSpot in Second Life has Officially been taken over by new Owners, Real FemDom.
What really happened. In the beginning the owner of OWK offered OWK and OWK Village for sale to Shayna Paine and a group of unknown women who called themselves the Secret Sister Society.
Michaal Ultsch the owner of the 2 sims in SL offered to sell this to the group for about 4300.00 and agreed to take 13 months of $350.00 payments. The contract they signed stated that he would turn everything that has to do with OWK over to them including his account.
Which is against TOS. Also, the contract stated that upon first payment and thereafter each month he would reveal to the Secret Sister Society all income and expenses. When Shayna
Theti-Sheri aka Shayna Paine in Second Life, went to give Michaal $350.00 for the first payment he refused to hand over the finanicals for that month.
The payment didn't go through. This didn't happen. Michaal then told Shayna that he didn't want to do it that way that OWK and OWK Village were not making any money and he was going to sell her the Rights to use the trademark OWK in Second Life for 3500.00 USD.
Being a business woman, Shayna then went and did research on the name and found out that Michaal Ultsch did not own any trademark on OWK for her to use, therefore he was trying to sell her air.
The whole time that the people at OWK were running OWK Michaal Ultsch was not there.. He was rarely on he stayed away. He didn't do things they needed to do that would help them function.
So the group of Ladies of Secret Sister Society and the staff of OWK were left to run things on their own with out the Owner. And he kept promising that he would sell the sim to them.
When Shayna realized she was being sold air. She met with the others and they decided to move on. So she collected funds from the group and they Trademarked the name they had been working under for almost a year in Second Life.
As far as Shayna ThetiSheri is concerned they did this as a group. She acted as their representative and is taking the full brunt of this because chaos and drama ensued.
This effectively made it look like a hostile takeover. Branding in Second Life have rules and owning a Trademark has guidelines. By law the trademark has to be protected. So the only course right now is to file a DMCA and get back what the women worked for. So Currently, Shayna ThetiSheri has branded OWKtm in Second Life.
You may be asking why this happened Well the public of Second Life often questioned the fact that a real life slave from OWK owned OWK in Second Life and not a Mistress from OWK How could a slave run be successful at a FemDom sim Is the person behind the avatar really a slave This assumption stifled OWK in Second Life and caused it problems.
So many ask why is a slave running OWK in Second Life The women their after a while felt like he was pimping them and it got pretty degrading because he would come on for 2 minutes at a time and tell them they needed to make him more money. This got a little old.
Michaal Ultsch left for a short unpleasant vacation unable to get online for 10 days when this was all about to happen. So no one got to talk to him till he came back.
The Ladies of OWK sick and tired of waiting on him. Went forward and started to work on a new OWKtm with Shayna ThetiSheri and several other people in Second Life. Michaal Ulstch showed back up in Second Life finally and was told he needed to meet with the Ladies.
Shine Rolls and Loes Shi attended this meeting along with Shayna ThetiSheri. Shayna did all the talking for the three in chat. While he Im'd with others in the background. Here is a recollection of what unfolded. First Shayna asked Michaal in front of them. Did you want to sell me OWK trademark for 3500 USD His reply was Yes.
She asked him this to clarify. Because, to this day Shayna still cannot believe that this slave was trying to scam her out of money for things he didn't own. They had offered him payments. She even offered him 2000 USD for the sims but yet nothing had changed hands. Was he playing them So she then continued the conversation and told him that she was sorry that business is business and because he was trying to sell her Air that she had bought the Trademark herself since he didn't own it for 325.00 from USA.
Upon seeing that the trademark was established in the US, Michaal immediately got angry with the Ladies and left. Instead of being rational decided to announce that Shayna Paine took over OWK in SL and that he was ending it. Shayna Paine aka Shayna ThetiSheri. This alarmed the group of course and caused a lot of controversy.
So alot of information was misinformed in rumors and such throughout the day. Shayna ThetiSheri of course knew that this was going to happen. So she made sure she covered herself ahead of time by trademarking several names to stop this from happening in Second Life. Dominant Females do not take lightly to being scammed on, threatened or harassed by a slave.
Especially, in the FemDom Community. Shayna ThetiSheri stood up for Her rights and did this to protect herself and her friends with these things happening in the future.
Please refer to:
[url]http://www.otherworldkingdom.org[/url] for information on what is trademarked by Her.
Group members were divided when the news was broadcasted by Michaal that he was closing down OWK in SL. Then later on he decided to open a new group called Other World Kingdom. Still this slave tries to take control of the business that is ran by Women.
The group was divided because they had no background information about what happened and it just looked like Shayna stepped in and took over. So without knowing the story these people were in the dark and thats when people make assumptions and spread rumors.
Hopefully this article will give them in insight on what happened to the Women who actually ran OWK in SL.
Michaal announced that he would be giving the OWK in SL group to Shayna Paine because she now owns the US Tradmark of OWKtm. He feels that this was unfair to him. But its ok to sell someone Air for 3500.00 USD in Second Life and get away with it. Not only that he led these women on for over 6 months believing they were going to own it. The group broke out into a discussion and several of the ladies involved in OWK and that are moving to the new OWKtm reassured people that they would not have to pay a new fee.
The only thing that will happen is that everything will be moved to a new location and made into a real replica of OWK. The future of OWKtm awaits because though Shayna ThetiSheri wont give out too much information at the moment. This whole project has to do with something unfolding in the BDSM Community in the future in the United States. And has been a project/dream of hers for most of her life.
She's been working toward this dream online and getting people and resources together to make it happen.
The Sim has been reported to be under construction and awaiting completion, However the new build will be something like a replication of the Real Life version for those who cannot visit or will never get the opportunity to visit the real world "Other World Kingdom" when it is sold. Not all aspects of the land will be the same but for the most part the feel and look will be captured on the second Life grid.
All Staff, members and slaves, including Michaal Ultsch are welcome to be involved in the new OWKtm, free of charge. The vendors are even free. Since this venture has to do with a Real Life venture in the United States and will be funded through donations and some key investors. The Investors are hard working a way so that the virtual world can be more enjoyment to the participants without the burden of needing to pay extra for things.Having just read that, two thoughts occur to me:-
1. The thinking seems to be somewhat silly; i.e. a slave didn't own OWK - the owner did. The fact the he was a slave in the roleply is irrelevant. So it seems that some of the reasoning is skewed by things that aren't real.
2. Whilst it may legal, it's despicable to knowingly register a trademark of someone else's business (or whatever it is) in an attempt to take it over, even though it would be operated somewhere else. Whether or not the guy wanted to sell it, and whether or not he indicated a desire to sell it, and whether or not he tried to sell something that he didn't own (possibly innocently), it's still a nasty thing to do. In terms of morality, the Secret Women don't have a leg to stand on, imo. What they should have done is start up a new operation with a different name
.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,375
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I have to respectfully disagree. The owner of any Intellectual Property has to take some sort of reasonable steps to protect that property. Trademark registration exists as a way to make it as easy and cheap as possible for someone to protect the trademarks they want to own.
(And Phil, I know that you specifically, in other contexts, are a big believer in the idea that there is nothing wrong with taking fair advantage of the rules with which everyone is playing. I agreed with you then, but for the same reasons, I disagree with you now.)
I think it's great that Second Life provides a way for people to create their businesses or other content without requiring them to have degrees or industry experience or a lot of capital to invest or a lot of time to invest. But if one wants to be treated like a legitimate business or organization, one needs to operate like a legitimate business or organization.
I aboslutely sympathize with the SL owner who has worked so hard creating their work, to have it ruined just because they didn't spend their lives working on a degree in business, or did not have the luxury of affording an army of lawyers to advise their every action. It's not their fault that the situation has occurred. But just because I sympathize with them or don't blame them, that does not translate into blaming the other company. It's not their fault either.
(One of the reasons that my SL art shop is uncreatively named "Amity Slade's Shop" is because one's Second Life account name is the only truly unique indentifier one can have in Second Life. I had all kinds of great ideas for other names, but the truth of the matter is, I knew Linden Lab would not protect my shop name, and the legal options available to me to protect my shop name would require more expense and time than worthwhile for me.)
Don't blame another company for following the rules that the SL organization either did not research, or chose not to follow. It is not the other company's responsibility to tell others how to protect their own property.
Now, if Linden Lab wanted to encourage SL business to flourish, Linden Lab would do well to provide information to would-be SL business owners on the simple things they can do to protect their SL businesses. I have long wished to see Linden Lab do something simple and proactive- like just providing information- which would help it's idea of a virtual economy become a reality. Second Life has not lived up to its expectations as a real business platform because Linden Lab, quite frankly, still has not shown that it knows how to act like a real business.
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Registered User
Posts: 757
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Legally, you don't have to register a trademark in order to own it - just being the first to use it gives you common law ownership rights (including the right to exclude others from using it or to license its use to others). Although it is of course advisable to register it - see [url]http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/trademark-ownership[/url] for example.
The sisters have merely applied to register this trademark - according to TARR it hasn't even been assigned an examining attorney (one of whose role is to check that no-one already has common law ownership - and there is a period during which anyone who feels they already have common law rights can file objections). As such the sisters do not yet own this trademark, as opposed to say the Czech company who appear to have been using this trademark for over 10 years.
Matthew
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Registered User
Posts: 419
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Even if these "ladies" win the use of the trademark in the U.S., that doesn't automatically give them anything with regards to the Czech company that's been using the name for longer than SL has existed. I hope they're willing to spend lots of money to wage an international court battle. Methinks it'd be cheaper just to buy their own island.
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Prim Savers = low prims
Posts: 5,025
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A guy starts something and many people join it and like it.
After some time, a small number of the members decide that they don't want the owner in charge any more, so they take steps to have the system for themselves, but instead of starting an alternative, they decide to take what he has. I consider that to be a despicable act, even though it's probably legal.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm certain that she can't have the trademark if the organisation's owner doesn't want her to have it. I.e. he can challenge it, and I'm sure he'd win.Quote:
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Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
Quote:
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Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
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Well we have an update: Shayna has sent a notecard to the new Czech Owner of OWK Village island (the other island, OWK, was sold and re-named Velvet Thorn). OWK Village Island was purchased a year ago and has been an active residential island for Mistresses and submissives ever since.
Shayna now claims she received her trademark for OWK in the United States (even though the trademark already exists in Czech Republic). She has given us 3 to 5 days or she will file a DMCA.
She owns OWK - we have OWK Village and it has been here for months. Since our name is OWK Village and she has this trademark for OWK - I do not see what the issue is. We shall see in 5 days what Linden Lab will do, if anything at all.
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Prim Savers = low prims
Posts: 5,025
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There are just no depths of nastiness to which some people won't go.
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Registered User
Posts: 419
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If the Czech owners called their sim "Other World Kingdom" just like their real world micronation, all the money and vindictive effort this American woman has gone through to use the initials would be rendered moot.
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Registered User
Posts: 832
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She is lying to you. She has APPLIED for the trademark on "OWK" as of November 14, 2008 (Application number: 77614614). The doesn't own anything. An application is NOT a registration. It normally takes from 12 to 18 months for a trademark application to be registered. And that's if there are no problems with the application, and there are no opposing parties.
Furthermore, her application is in class 035 for Goods & Services of: "Managing and operating resort hotels and business conference centers of others". Even if registered, that will mark will not protect her for offering services in Second Life. The virtual is not the real. She needed to apply in class 042, which is probably the proper class for what she's doing in SL.
But--it gets worse. She applied with a filing basis of 1A (currently using the mark in commerce). That requires a specimen demonstrating such use to be attached to the application. However, the specimen she's attached is simply the letters "OWK". That's not going to be acceptable to the Trademark office.
So even if there is no opposition filed, she's going to end up halfway through the application process with a mark that she can't provide a specimen for (as she's not actually "Managing and operating resort hotels and business conference centers of others"), and will have to start over in the correct international class. And pay another 275 to 325 US filing fee.Quote:
DMCA has nothing to do with Trademarks. Its the "Digital Millenium COPYRIGHT Act". Copyright is not Trademark.
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She has no trademark for anything. If I were the owner if OWK Village, I would file a trademark tomorrow, in the correct class.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,155
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Does the Czech word for "Trademark" begin with one of the letters D, M, C, or A?
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Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
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Furthermore, her application is in class 035 for Goods & Services of: "Managing and operating resort hotels and business conference centers of others". Even if registered, that will mark will not protect her for offering services in Second Life. The virtual is not the real. She needed to apply in class 042, which is probably the proper class for what she's doing in SL.
But--it gets worse. She applied with a filing basis of 1A (currently using the mark in commerce). That requires a specimen demonstrating such use to be attached to the application. However, the specimen she's attached is simply the letters "OWK". That's not going to be acceptable to the Trademark office.
So even if there is no opposition filed, she's going to end up halfway through the application process with a mark that she can't provide a specimen for (as she's not actually "Managing and operating resort hotels and business conference centers of others"), and will have to start over in the correct international class. And pay another 275 to 325 US filing fee.
DMCA has nothing to do with Trademarks. Its the "Digital Millenium COPYRIGHT Act". Copyright is not Trademark.
She has no trademark for anything. If I were the owner if OWK Village, I would file a trademark tomorrow, in the correct class.Thank you for this information. I shared it with the Czech OWK Village owner. I also told him not to give Shayna any of his real life information (since she was insisting that he give her his attorney's name). She needs to direct her legal pleadings to Linden Lab. If Linden Lab finds them valid then they will contact the island owner and make arrangements for a name change.
But if Linden Lab allows this to happen - then there will be much project poaching going on in Second Life. Then anyone can see a project they like, attempt a trademark of the project name and insist that Linden Lab shut it down.
I do not think her current effort will get her anywhere but I do not think she will stop trying to own the only OWK in Second Life. She will be providing you all with endless forum fodder.
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Registered User
Posts: 26
Claim the sim
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1) It will be a sad day in Second Life when content creators that invested their talent, energgy and money to create a community of 1,800 residents can be taken over by an illegal trademark.
2) michaal never completed the sale to this person and no money changed hands. Therefore she had no claim to the OWK server. The real life owner of OWK in the Czech Republic did not grant her a license to use the facility name in Second Life (which michaal was granted - since he is the real life secretary at the OWK in Czech Republic). A few unscrupulous women in the group got together and decided to take what was not theirs by bullying the creator.
3) So now they can ride on the coattails of michaal's successful project and convince themselves they were owed this from him. Whatever blows your skirt 'ladies'.
4) michaal developed a wonderful project and had the misfortune of trusting the wrong people to help lead his community. I hope to see more work from him in Second Life.
4)
Lol, and that was his major improvement to shut down the sim. As you have to deal any day with disaffected and unsatisfied women who think they can control your doing, i understand that he gets worth off the business.
And as his intentions where to give others (and himself) fun when he is online but instead of it he reads only desperate messages. (I would eject and ban them from my group and my land and would take more care after in the selection of my staff/members!) You cant even give some frustrated shegoats liabilities when you dont let know them what your goal is when you started this place. I hope the most of you of the former owk dommes i didnt meet again in the future in sl (as long as im again there..)
So i guess in this sense, his backthoughts was to get a bit back what he spends during a year to the community. If someone else means she can simply overtaken a proven name in sl and take her own construct of lawing to run it after under her own name, you are fool! You thinked you are right when you catch all whats remained and when you are inworld is bla bla bla the whole thing you maded, then you thinked wrong.
The second in this story has been scammed and my advice to him is grate your black eye and learn for the future from this episode!
And the 3rd in this story; dont mess up others with your misdoings. When you feel you have been scammed, think well and decide after how to get your lost things back! The one and only thing you maded is well is that you destroyed the gameexperinece of some users here. Its still shooting over the target! For a better understanding read this;
And for the rest of us like i told it many times in the past, us-standards ARENT standards for the world - they doesnt interest us! If "lawyers" behind the big pond and such who mean they are it still proceed today in wild west manners, dont try to dazzle us! We are not idiots. US like to do dont to hit their targets mostly, their real behavior is targeting once extremely to the one side or extremely to the opposite side! But the locigal and (mostly the fairest way) who is situated between both of the extremes isnt in your nature. Listen and learn, "uncle sam"You are targeting too far beneath the mark!
3) I think both of the new sim who call themself with the letters "OWK" are out of business, because the real submissives are careful and avoid both in the future. Instead of having fun we are wasting our moneys and have to fight against others stupidity.
Im asking me what im still doing here...Thats my completion with the "cause owk".
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Builder For Hire
Posts: 83
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From my understanding of trademarks if you file a trademark for the sole purpose of undermining an long standing company or group you've committed a crime. So... If that is the case the trademark would be invalid and the filer be charged with a crime if the original owners had records of ownership and could also show the person who filed the trademark did so to undermine them.
Could be worth looking into.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,155
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In addition to what has already been said, I suggest taking a look at Linden Lab's DMCA page (at [url]http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php[/url] ).
It says clearly that the person filing the DMCA has to state, under penalties of perjury, that the person filing is the copyright owner or authorized to act on behalf of the owner. The statement must be exactly as written on that page; you can't replace 'copyright' with 'trademark', send it to LL, and expect them to treat it as a DMCA claim.
So, if this person follows through on the threat to file a DMCA claim, she'll either have to sign that statement or else file a claim that's procedurally invalid. If it's invalid, then hopefully LL will have their act together and reject it. If she signs it as is, then she's put herself into a very unpleasant situation. I don't think it's perjury if you sincerely believe something to be true, but nevertheless, she may be forced to defend against that charge. If someone were to tell her (in some provable way) about this point before the filing, and that trademarks and copyrights are different, then it could be interesting to see her credibly claim that she still believed filing the trademark meant she owned the copyright and have a judge or jury believe it.
I'm not a lawyer, and I don't for a minute assume that we have a complete and objective picture of everything that has happened. I'm just pointing out that anyone who files a DMCA claim without understanding what they're doing could potentially be in very serious trouble.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,155
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I'm not sure if that's simply a mistranslation of "take your black eye" or else an idiom from another language that doesn't translate literally. It's interesting in either case.Quote:
And for the rest of us like i told it many times in the past, us-standards ARENT standards for the world - they doesnt interest us! If "lawyers" behind the big pond and such who mean they are it still proceed today in wild west manners, dont try to dazzle us!
While there are times when US-centric behavior deserves this criticism, this isn't one of them.
This isn't a case of someone trying to apply US law and convention in places where it doesn't apply. This is a case of someone not understanding the law to begin with. I think you'll find that US and European law are more similar than different in this situation.
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SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
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it sounds kind of silly to me that someone would create something after i had..then go and get a trademark or copyright and then try to get me to stop making or doing what i have been doing before they ever came along..
i mean isn't it to secure something you feel you came up with first? if they dig and find i was here or making something with a certain name say a year longer than this person was around .wouldn't that put their effort to secure a name or products or whatever is the trademark or copyright at risk?
in other words wouldn't it come down to me just showing i was the original and such and such date proves i was?
can you lose a copyright or trademark i guess is what i am asking ?
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Registered User
Posts: 419
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Could be worth looking into.
Probably not worth looking into from a monetary standpoint since the Czech owners of OWK would have to retain lawyers in the U.S. to pursue it. I'm just presuming like most businesses of small to moderate size, they don't have time and money to burn on international litigation, which is probably why this idiot in the U.S. assumes she can get away with whatever it is she's attempting to do. I'm still not quite sure what that is. Gain control of virtual land in Second Life by spending lots of money on legal filings bearing false statements that could potentially lead to criminal charges. Not typically the way most people would go about getting themselves and island.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,375
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If there is a legitimate legal claim worthy of litigation, then the complaining party is wise to go through all available means of resolving the problem before filing a lawsuit. Even if the available means are probably ultimately fruitless, it looks good in the eyes of a judge or jury that one tried before going to court. Taking one's best shot to resolve the issue through Linden Lab's procedure- even if it is a longshot- is still probably a good move.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,155
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That's good as far as it goes, but it grinds to a halt when you get to the part about signing under penalties of perjury. Remember that perjury is a crime.
Even without the perjury issue, there's a line between following process and harassment. Filing a trademark infringement complaint with LL is one thing. Using the DMCA process when it's clearly the wrong process, primarily because it's a more aggressive process, is another.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,375
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Even without the perjury issue, there's a line between following process and harassment. Filing a trademark infringement complaint with LL is one thing. Using the DMCA process when it's clearly the wrong process, primarily because it's a more aggressive process, is another.
Well, that's why I started out by qualifying "If there's a legitimate legal claim." I don't know all the facts. Of course, if there is no legitimate claim from the start, you are correct.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,155
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can you lose a copyright or trademark i guess is what i am asking ?
For the most part, yes. Proving you were first carries a lot of weight.
Copyrights and trademarks are two different things. You can't really lose a copyright. You can sell it or give it away. Or someone could prove that you never were entitled to it in the first place. To do that, they'd either have to prove that you weren't first, or that it item in question wasn't eligible for copyright to begin with.
You can lose a trademark, aspirin being a well-known example. But it's also possible for two different entities to own the same trademark, as long as they're in different markets. Things get interesting when one owner tries to expand into a market for which the other owner has claim, or both try to expand into a market for which neither had claim. I won't pretend to know much about that situation, other than it exists.
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Registered User
Posts: 1,375
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Kidd gave you essentially the answer on that. It is very important for companies to aggressively protect trademarks, because letting infringements pass without trying to do something about it is the easiest way to lose a trademark.
Though I don't know about the case with apirin, I assume it's the same kind of case as band-aids. Band-Aid started as a product name for adhesive bandages. Eventually, band-aid became a generic term everyone was using to describe adhesive bandages of any type. Because the company didn't act early enough in combating the generic use of the word band-aid (sending letters to publications using "band-aid" generically, for example), when it finally did get around to trying to protect the trademark, the courts wouldn't protect it fully.
The company that owns Kleenex routinely monitors the media for mentions of grabbing "a kleenex" rather than "a Kleenex brand facial tissue." Every time someone anywhere mentions "a kleenex," the legal team sends a cease-and-desist letter. They even take out ads in media industry publications explaining how to properly refer to "a Kleenex brand facial tissue."
To illustrate, that is why Linden Lab came out with it's Second Life Brand Center, it's Guidelines for Using Linden Lab's Trademarks, and it's threats to go after bloggers who didn't comply with the rules. While it may seem silly and/or draconian, it's a necessary and vital part of Linden Lab's strategy to protect it's trademark on Second Life, and not lose it.
(And in doing my double-check to make sure I didn't misstate anything in this post, I discovered that the 1921 case regarding aspirin is concerned THE example of losing a trademark due to generic usage.)
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Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
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Updated update: Once it was pointed out in this forum that she lied about owning any trademarks she sent a notecard to the OWK Village Island Owner's avatar stating that she applied for a trademark..
When it was attempted to speak to her about all of these notecards she refused to discuss it and said speak to her lawyer. Then tonight a fake SL attorney contacted people affiliated with OWK Village and tried to get them to say that they were using Shayna's trademark.
I think they hope to dazzle Linden Lab with all of this legalese (as they try to do with us). It seems they are hoping that no one notices the underlying reality of the situation - If the question is about 'implied trademark' (since she does not have a trademark), then use comes up. She says she used OWK for 8 months - but michaal owned the SL Island named OWK for eight months (even though her mainland OWK is deeded to a group entitled OWK she just created). Is she saying that since she was a member of michaal's group that she was using OWK? If that is the case then 1,800 people in the group can make the same lame claim.
So now this 'lawyer' is going to contact Linden Lab with a DMCA and try to force them to change the name of an Island that has had the same name for a year - well before She decided she owned the name. If Linden Lab caves on this one then there truly is no hope for this platform
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Posting on Borrowed Time
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Any IP lawyer will tell you that the DMCA applies to copyrighted works, not trademarks. A single word or short company name like "OWK" or "General Electric" can't be copyrighted. It's a trademark or a service mark.
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Devil's Bride
Posts: 22
He tried some scare tacticsQuote:
May I ask, do you use the OWK label as an acronym, to stand for something?
I will proceed under the assumption that there is no settlement possible between the parties.
This leave me no other option but to take this through the standard channels LL has set up.
DMCA, etc.
It seems now she is engaging in spiteful litigation. She listed her mainland sim yesterday deeded to her OWK Group. She used the OWK Initials and Other World Kingdom in her Sim Group Name (We just use the original island name - OWK Village).
They want to know what OWK stands for in our Island and group name
Only
We
Know
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Multiple Body Disorder
Posts: 8,697
Useful info:
[url]http://www.chillingeffects.org/trademark/faq.cgi[/url]
Note that if this is a trademark dispute they need to send you a Cease and Desist letter. They can not use the DMCA:
[url]http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca512/notice.cgi?NoticeID=3127[/url]
If they DO, then you can use this form:
[url]http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca/counter512.pdf[/url]
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Registered User
Posts: 832
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Absolutely right. I reread the relevant section of the actual law this afternoon. One note though--some ISPs do (incorrectly) use the DMCA takedown and notification procedure for trademark violations, as well. That's not a matter of law, but of ISP convienance, which is likely to come back to bit them on the ass eventually.
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king of polynesia :P
Posts: 2,094
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Nope.
Lets say business A, named "pig" was in business since 2001.
In 2009 a new "business" B emerges and decides to TM "pig" under the same service categories business A works in.
Business B can not try to say business A is infringing, as business A has been in business since 01. Really, it is business B who is infringing even if they were able to register the TM.
From my understanding I think business A needs to just be able to prove they were operating since 01. Business B would not be able to prove they were since they began operating in 09.
A TM keeps this type of thing from happening. Just like a copyright. Even if you dont officially register a work with the copyright office, you still own copyright to it. But formally registering a copyright is your solid proof that will get you through any disputes.
Im not sure how it all works step by step but I do know when I was trying to get something TMd a few years back I asked, "So, if someone is using this same name I can issue a cease and desist order?" her reply was, "If they were not using the name before you"... Also, a question they ask is "Date first used in commerce" and you need to supply a "specimin" which proves you were using it on the date you claim.
I think business, or individuals, are responsable for checking the database to make sure a name is not already TM, and they need to try to find out if there is already someone operating under that name, TM or not, before they go ahead and get something registered. This is to protect themselves as if someone was indeed already using the name, even if they didnt get it TM`d yet, a dispute could errupt.
Im definitely not a lawyer and maybe misunderstood. So, dont take my word for it. But from my understanding of it all, there is absolutely no way someone could legally TM a name someone else has been using and try to claim it as theres to get somenoe shut down. If original name-owner can prove they were using the name in commerce before the thieves, the thieves really have no leg to stand on. To PREVENT this type of drama from happening, business should take steps to TM their name.
And keep in mind a TM/SM and copyright are two different things
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Registered User
Posts: 757
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Use an Indian theme and claim it is a village in the Owk mandal - [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owk[/url] ;-)
Matthew
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OWK Villager
Posts: 4
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Im definitely not a lawyer and maybe misunderstood. So, dont take my word for it. But from my understanding of it all, there is absolutely no way someone could legally TM a name someone else has been using and try to claim it as theres to get somenoe shut down. If original name-owner can prove they were using the name in commerce before the thieves, the thieves really have no leg to stand on. To PREVENT this type of drama from happening, business should take steps to TM their name.
And keep in mind a TM/SM and copyright are two different thingsThat is my rational understanding of the law also. We shall see in a few days if Linden Lab allows her to get away with this.
Why she is knowingly attempting to trademark a real life and SL place is beyond my understanding. That's like walking into a store, throwing a Persian Rug over your shoulder and walking out without paying. It is blatant daylight robbery. Big ballz.
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Prim Savers = low prims
Posts: 5,025
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OWK Villager
Our concern was not world dominance over the BDSM community. Once the OWKtm popped up over our heads we felt like company stooges. If this is the was the way she was going to run her empire we did not want any part of it. That was only a handful of us. And we have developed quite a lovely sim out of the ashes of what was. We are financially stable because many Mistresses gave up their opensims and moved here to pay rent and the stores are almost all fully rented. We have time to develop the community and group list back to what it was - with people and Managers that will not undermine the project as the failed senate did.
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Devil's Bride
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 22
Yesterday she had a island she owns name changed to OWK. I hope that this appropriation of michaal's project will be the end of the madness. Still waiting for thsi false DMCA claim she was making to Linden Lab in order to shut down OWK Village Island.
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Original forum: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=296148&page=1&pp=15
